Great article. I forwarded it to my wife and kids. A couple of weeks ago, my wife bought a copy of an ESV Bible. I poked at her a little bit over it, so when the Church made this change, she threw my teasing back at me. I haven't shopped for it yet, but I'd love to find a side-by-side version with the KJV and ERSV.
A few years ago, while doing some work in Kentucky, a friend invited me to join a small group meeting. It was among five Evangelical business owners who meet often to help each other with business decisions, review financials together, etc. They start each meeting with a brief scripture study and that day it was John 15.
I'm not sure which Bible version they were reading from, but I was following along on my trusty Gospel Library app, which is, of course, the KJV.
We got to verse 15 and whomever was reading used the word, "slaves", rather than "servants", and candidly, the wording was very jarring to me. The idea that Jesus would refer to the Twelve and His other disciples as "slaves" took me right out of the moment. When it was my turn to read, I actually went back to verse 15 first and commented on the difference.
I have not yet taken the time to go back and research how different translations treat John 15:15 and why other may have chosen the word "slave" over "servant", or which word is more correct. Eventually, I will because that memory surfaces every now and then and bothers me a little.
On the flip side, I personally always refer to the third member of the Godhead as the Holy Spirit. I think part of that came from living in the Bible Belt for so many years and having good conversations with my Evanglical friends, and I think that part of it comes from the modern view/definition of the word "Ghost" which I don't love. "Spirit" better captures who He is, in my opinion.
My wife would have done the same thing. But I don’t want a wife who doesn’t dish it back… haha.
The term “slave” is a tough on because the concept and practice differed in OT period than NT period, and blending of Jewish and Roman forms of slavery, then add to that the morally questionable practice indentured servitude vs. sinful ownership of people plus the horrific evil of the transatlantic slave trade and… *whew* I don’t envy translators. I read this sorts of passages as establishing the seat of authority in Christ, not those who follow him.
Interesting on the use of Holy Spirit! The only reason I’d salvage “ghost” is because, even in our American usage of it, a ghost is not a mindless thing, but acts and moves and has agency and wills etc. A spirit, however—maybe due to eastern influence?—can mean something that does not necessarily think but still actions and moves in an immaterial way, e.g., the Force of Star Wars. However, at the end of the day, I do prefer Holy Spirit.
As always, I enjoy reading from your perspective
Grateful for your readership!
Great article. I forwarded it to my wife and kids. A couple of weeks ago, my wife bought a copy of an ESV Bible. I poked at her a little bit over it, so when the Church made this change, she threw my teasing back at me. I haven't shopped for it yet, but I'd love to find a side-by-side version with the KJV and ERSV.
A few years ago, while doing some work in Kentucky, a friend invited me to join a small group meeting. It was among five Evangelical business owners who meet often to help each other with business decisions, review financials together, etc. They start each meeting with a brief scripture study and that day it was John 15.
I'm not sure which Bible version they were reading from, but I was following along on my trusty Gospel Library app, which is, of course, the KJV.
We got to verse 15 and whomever was reading used the word, "slaves", rather than "servants", and candidly, the wording was very jarring to me. The idea that Jesus would refer to the Twelve and His other disciples as "slaves" took me right out of the moment. When it was my turn to read, I actually went back to verse 15 first and commented on the difference.
I have not yet taken the time to go back and research how different translations treat John 15:15 and why other may have chosen the word "slave" over "servant", or which word is more correct. Eventually, I will because that memory surfaces every now and then and bothers me a little.
On the flip side, I personally always refer to the third member of the Godhead as the Holy Spirit. I think part of that came from living in the Bible Belt for so many years and having good conversations with my Evanglical friends, and I think that part of it comes from the modern view/definition of the word "Ghost" which I don't love. "Spirit" better captures who He is, in my opinion.
Thanks, Brian! I hope it’s helpful to them.
My wife would have done the same thing. But I don’t want a wife who doesn’t dish it back… haha.
The term “slave” is a tough on because the concept and practice differed in OT period than NT period, and blending of Jewish and Roman forms of slavery, then add to that the morally questionable practice indentured servitude vs. sinful ownership of people plus the horrific evil of the transatlantic slave trade and… *whew* I don’t envy translators. I read this sorts of passages as establishing the seat of authority in Christ, not those who follow him.
Interesting on the use of Holy Spirit! The only reason I’d salvage “ghost” is because, even in our American usage of it, a ghost is not a mindless thing, but acts and moves and has agency and wills etc. A spirit, however—maybe due to eastern influence?—can mean something that does not necessarily think but still actions and moves in an immaterial way, e.g., the Force of Star Wars. However, at the end of the day, I do prefer Holy Spirit.